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Summer Wars - This is NOT a troubleshooting or technical support forum.
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Hyuuga
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Jan 22 2011 05:52 AM
QUOTE (wedora @ Jan 21 2011, 10:56 PM)
Hyuuga, I am paying attention to it.  I work closely with critical infastructure and network security specialists on a weekly basis.  Online portals for paying your bills have no control or connection to the actual systems - interally within these companies, there is either a complete physical separation or logical separation with authentication procedures to actually pass the request for service/cancellation to actually happen.  There is not a single system on the other end of the line that "rules them all" within even a single company - they are separated by either human input or computer security.  The encryption levels commonly used requires more computing power than currently exists in the world to break in real-time - and as more computing power becomes available, higher-level encryption is used. 

Having "one key" to control these things within a single company, let alone multiple companies, would be considered almost criminal negligence by the company involved, severe ignorance by the network security personnel within the company, and a high risk behavior by any sort of risk assessment.  It would take millions of people with the IQ of retards running every major company in the world for such a stupid decision to be made.  Even then, a sociopathic CEO would block it because it isn't even a financially smart move because the risk is too high!

Now, say a company comes along and decides to create a unified experience and tie all this stuff together.  Guess what:  its a glorified liason service, nothing more.  These companies would not allow another company priveledged access to their systems...they could send REQUESTS to those companies on your behalf, but that doesn't gain control of their system.  If a company was big enough to become what amounts to the global conglomerate and have everything under one umbrella, politics would even get in the way!  That kind of monopoly is not permitted in many countries.This doesn't even get into the required computing power to even run a malicious AI of the level shown in this movie, let alone the major advancements in AI development necessary to even sniff at it.

I could write pages upon pages upon pages of hurdles that you have no idea even exist.  Your mentioning of DVRs (glorified recording service, not two-way communication), and the military (the military mantains physical separation only linked by human interaction between critical systems and outward-facing internet-capable systems) signifies that you are severely misinformed on the topic.  You should not say things people will read and interpret as truth if you yourself do not understand the topic at hand.

I agree with Ausdoerrt-sama lets not turn this into some conspiracy crap. I did'nt want it to sound like i'm saying this is happening right now but you still didn't catch my point.

I am a network security specialists for state agency and you correct about "Online portals for paying your bills have no control or "DIRECT"connection to the actual systems"

But we are currenly going through a phase were everything is being move to web based systems now the security protocols are put in place as you mentioned but hell a couple of months ago someone broke two levels of our security. Now they still were no where close to getting in but anyone will tell you there is no full proof system on the web.

But think where we are off at is what OZ would really be or was in the movie. OZ wouldn't be a one stop shop control system. All it would be is a hub for all of the access portals. You are right no company would be stupid enough to put all its functions under someone else's system (Government might be thought ) But we see it now where companies and governmental entities are putting remote access points on the web for employees.

Give you an example some of our employees are assigned Laptops for remote access into our system. Now all the protocals are loaded into the computer but an access point is put on the web. These employees can remote in and proform a task. Ie our maintenace guy can sit at home and turn on and off the heating and cooling systems of all our facilities.

Now all of this is convenient but it does propose vulnerabilities, as good as we think we do our jobs. Once that access point is created it can be gotten into.

Now let me say this. I enjoy discussing things like this because we are looking and thinking about it everyday. I want to say you Right ON with everthing you are saying except for thinking that once you have a web based system there is complete separation. We fight off attacks all day from the internet trying to get into our intranet but that what you get from a web based system.

I guess the point I was making as society moves more toward web based systems the probability of OZ increases.

Like I said that was the thing that intrigued me the most about the movie is that we are moving more and more toward systems like that everyday.

Edit February 2011
Don't know if any of saw this new phone Ap that now you can pay for merchandise in the store with you cell phone. OZ
Ausdoerrt
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Jan 22 2011 01:26 AM
QUOTE (wedora @ Jan 20 2011, 05:24 PM)
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned lack of logic throughout the entire movie: There is no way in hell that any sort of integration, even on that level, would be allowed to control large parts of the physical world. Health & Safety regulators would destroy your company if something of that level was allowed to happen. Facebook may be integrated into your car or TV, but control of them is kept completely isolated from external interaction: you can't send a message through facebook to change the channel on your TV, etc. Even the scariest of current integrations, starting your car with your smartphone, has built-in safety features to disallow control when the car is already running (so you can't shut off someone driving your car by remote). The traffic lights, power outages, etc. in the movie fall in the category of sci-fi.

It's a common sci-fi topic. I was just reading Roger Zelazny's "Home is the Hangman", and a similar central databank system was part of the setting. It was a gov't program, though, which is more realistic than it being a private company.

As for the rest of everyone's argument, are we really gonna turn this into some conspiracy-theory-sounding bullcrap? Please, gimme a break.
wedora
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Jan 21 2011 11:56 PM
Hyuuga, I am paying attention to it. I work closely with critical infastructure and network security specialists on a weekly basis. Online portals for paying your bills have no control or connection to the actual systems - interally within these companies, there is either a complete physical separation or logical separation with authentication procedures to actually pass the request for service/cancellation to actually happen. There is not a single system on the other end of the line that "rules them all" within even a single company - they are separated by either human input or computer security. The encryption levels commonly used requires more computing power than currently exists in the world to break in real-time - and as more computing power becomes available, higher-level encryption is used.

Having "one key" to control these things within a single company, let alone multiple companies, would be considered almost criminal negligence by the company involved, severe ignorance by the network security personnel within the company, and a high risk behavior by any sort of risk assessment. It would take millions of people with the IQ of retards running every major company in the world for such a stupid decision to be made. Even then, a sociopathic CEO would block it because it isn't even a financially smart move because the risk is too high!

Now, say a company comes along and decides to create a unified experience and tie all this stuff together. Guess what: its a glorified liason service, nothing more. These companies would not allow another company priveledged access to their systems...they could send REQUESTS to those companies on your behalf, but that doesn't gain control of their system. If a company was big enough to become what amounts to the global conglomerate and have everything under one umbrella, politics would even get in the way! That kind of monopoly is not permitted in many countries.This doesn't even get into the required computing power to even run a malicious AI of the level shown in this movie, let alone the major advancements in AI development necessary to even sniff at it.

I could write pages upon pages upon pages of hurdles that you have no idea even exist. Your mentioning of DVRs (glorified recording service, not two-way communication), and the military (the military mantains physical separation only linked by human interaction between critical systems and outward-facing internet-capable systems) signifies that you are severely misinformed on the topic. You should not say things people will read and interpret as truth if you yourself do not understand the topic at hand.
Hyuuga
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Jan 21 2011 09:56 PM
QUOTE (wedora @ Jan 20 2011, 05:24 PM)
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned lack of logic throughout the entire movie: There is no way in hell that any sort of integration, even on that level, would be allowed to control large parts of the physical world. Health & Safety regulators would destroy your company if something of that level was allowed to happen. Facebook may be integrated into your car or TV, but control of them is kept completely isolated from external interaction: you can't send a message through facebook to change the channel on your TV, etc. Even the scariest of current integrations, starting your car with your smartphone, has built-in safety features to disallow control when the car is already running (so you can't shut off someone driving your car by remote). The traffic lights, power outages, etc. in the movie fall in the category of sci-fi.

WOW Wedora

you must really not be paying attention to the world around you. we are almost there right now! you are focusing to much on facebook. we were just using that as an example.

Speaking of TV look around you what do you think a DVR is? Google TV, the smart phones.

Do you realize just like in the movie most of your basic functions( LIGHTS, GAS, WATER etc) are control by an intranet as well as the internet. (The US Military has been using the intranet and internet for decades)

and by the way most people currently pay most of thier bills online including activating and de-activating services.

We are not 20-30 years away more like 5 to 10 if not sooner. all its going to take is for someone to organize everything into one system.

That was the one thing that struck me about the movie was that it showed the hazards of that kind of system but its to late we are there now.
Killer_Ossi
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Jan 21 2011 09:15 AM
I wouldnt be that sure wedora. Sure now its unbelievable but since the companys are getting more and more power and money I wouldnt be surprised if it was like this in lets say 30 or 50 years when there are no states anymore, only companys running everything.
Ok but 30 or 50 years in the future is sci-fi so youre right ^^ for now
wedora
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Jan 20 2011 06:24 PM
QUOTE (Hyuuga @ Jan 20 2011, 04:37 PM)
You are right thats the real sh***y part of it. For all the trouble that OZ caused a large number of people weren't even on it and face the potential danger.

Good for you for not doing twitter,myspace, blog and facebook. I wish i would never got a facebook page. There are some people in this world you don't want to ever hear from again

Well that problem (facebook) was corrected.

Killer_Ossi please continue to fight the good fight

That's what I was referring to when I mentioned lack of logic throughout the entire movie: There is no way in hell that any sort of integration, even on that level, would be allowed to control large parts of the physical world. Health & Safety regulators would destroy your company if something of that level was allowed to happen. Facebook may be integrated into your car or TV, but control of them is kept completely isolated from external interaction: you can't send a message through facebook to change the channel on your TV, etc. Even the scariest of current integrations, starting your car with your smartphone, has built-in safety features to disallow control when the car is already running (so you can't shut off someone driving your car by remote). The traffic lights, power outages, etc. in the movie fall in the category of sci-fi.

Hyuuga
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Jan 20 2011 05:37 PM
QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Jan 20 2011, 09:22 AM)
Oh then I misunderstood it. I really thought a 1km big satelite would be strange ^^

@Hyuuga: Yeah I know, just like I said with the Second Life or as you mentioned Facebook. The problem is that even persons like me who are neither in Second Life, Twitter, Facebook, Blogging or whatever can be in potential danger through it.

You are right thats the real sh***y part of it. For all the trouble that OZ caused a large number of people weren't even on it and face the potential danger.

Good for you for not doing twitter,myspace, blog and facebook. I wish i would never got a facebook page. There are some people in this world you don't want to ever hear from again

Well that problem (facebook) was corrected.

Killer_Ossi please continue to fight the good fight
Killer_Ossi
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Jan 20 2011 10:22 AM
Oh then I misunderstood it. I really thought a 1km big satelite would be strange ^^

@Hyuuga: Yeah I know, just like I said with the Second Life or as you mentioned Facebook. The problem is that even persons like me who are neither in Second Life, Twitter, Facebook, Blogging or whatever can be in potential danger through it.
Hyuuga
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Jan 20 2011 03:47 AM
yeah i just re watched the anime yesterday dchaosblade is correct it was said that it would cause 1 km of damage if it (satellite) hit one of the nuclear facilities and the fall out would be worst.

kenji change the course of the satellite just enough that it banged into the side of the mountain that thier family home sits on.

Killer ossi your review is spot on but you know the funny part is people don't realize how close we are to everyone operating on a system like OZ

just think about what we do now with facebook for example and the word is facebook will adding the ability to make bill payments sometime in 2011 or beginning of 2012

getting close to OZ
Ausdoerrt
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Jan 19 2011 09:20 PM
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most people think computers are magical boxes that do things


In Japan anyway
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